Preacher

[Jables]

Hehheheh. You'll fly through the last three. That'll be Saturday morning for you. Yeah, knowing what I know now, when JW asks Jesse in Monument Valley if he has the grit for what comes next, 'As bad as it can get', it gives me chills.

[MetalHeart]

Anyone need an invite to Demonoid? Thanks to ASC, I found out I have more codes to give!

[Iambaytor]

Okay so I finished this, read the whole thing, every single spin-off (Including Jesse, Cass, and Arseface meet Pope Pie-us)

 

Here's my take on the whole thing. It started off fucking magnificent, the first arc was brilliant, about the time we hit Naked City it goes downhill then when we get to Angleville it's great again (I can't help but like Jody's character, there needed to be more of him) after that it's just a pretty steady downgrade till we get out of Masada and move on toward War in the Sun, however the turn that Cass' character took didn't wow me and I really didn't need to hear Tulip and Jesse go back and forth about her not going into battle 10 times (and like 18 more in subsequent issues) after War in the Sun the story becomes like 100 times better with

Jesse on his own in Salvation. His character develops a great deal, some good things happen, and we get one of the better arcs of the whole damn story. Once everybody gets back together Tulip and Jesse have the same conversation another 25 times, Cass gets a bad wrap that I never really felt he deserved on the level he got it, then we finish with an anticlimactic end complete with an ending straight out of a romantic comedy.

 

There were a lot of this book I enjoyed. Angelville, the two meetings with Spaceman, Salvation, anything that involved Cassidy and Jesse on the top of the empire state building, Tulip's past, and even the Alamo, leading up to the last 4 pages. Jesse and Cass developed nicely together even if Cass took a turn I didn't like but throw Tulip into the mix and they just sit there and spin their tires, her past was great but the character herself was a one-note fiddle. Starr, if not for the constant comedic interludes, would've become intolerable before Masada was even done with. The Saint was always great but I could have done with 80% less Arseface, he stopped being funny pretty quick and just became annoying (especially when they stopped giving him captions)

 

 

It's a great great story, but I found the interludes from the main story to be far more interesting than the main story itself (aside from the beginning and Angelville) It's damn good but at the end of the day I still enjoy Hitman and The Boys more.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Skeeter
not everyone's finished it!!!

[The NZA]

ASC/whoever said the character bits - again, the issue with jesse/cass at the bar in the Alamo's still one of my favorites.

 

'tor - we'll forever disagree on the ending, but youre selling it short man. Either way, glad to see someone else had love for Salvation (remember Wizard acted like it was the worst bit, dragging its nuts and praying for it to be over?), and i tend to agree with the overused arseface bits.

 

I respect your love for Hitman, but The Boys? really? im honestly wanting to love it more these days, but its had a very few character moments and im starving for more, seriously. i cant see you thinking that book holds a candle, man.

[Jables]

If I didn't have a fair guage of Baytor at this point I'd think he was one of the jock crowd that just loved gratuity which is pretty much all the Boys is offering. The current arc(good for the soul?) has me interested because it's a plotline I'm been interested in since the first, and Starlight is easily the most interesting character in this series of varying degrees of degenerate.

[Iambaytor]

THAT is considered a spoiler? C'mon man I've seen plot summaries less vague than that

 

Well here's the deal,

the fake ending, the one they ended Alamo with, I was at peace with that. It ended in a way that tied things off and didn't sell Jesse's journey short but the epilogue with it going "oh by the way God totally brought 'em both back" and Jesse riding into gridlocked traffic on a horse and scooping Tulip on the back and riding off into the sunset and the line "I guess I'm learnin' to cry again" that was the cheesiest shit I have ever read. The bit with the Saint and Cassidy, I'm cool with that, Cassidy got the hose and I was glad to see him get tossed a bone for once. But like I said Starr went from a fairly serious character to a joke which was the only thing that kept him interesting post War in the Sun and Tulip, Jesse, and Cassidy only seemed to gain any ground character-wise when they were apart. When it was great it was incredible when it was bad it was kinda meh, never bad, far from it. It was certainly a damn sight better than Chronicles of Wormwood, but it had its downfalls.

 

 

I will admit the characters haven't really been fleshed out well. Hughie and Starlight are really the only one's we've gotten a peak at with a little bit from Butcher and Mother's Milk whilst The Frenchman and The Female live in obscurity. But the series has barely gotten off the ground. The first arc was great and while I'll admit the Russia one was a bit sketchy the one that followed worked pretty well. And admittedly it is a work in gratuity but I ain't seen anything yet that Preacher didn't do on its own (we're still a long way from Meat Woman territory) but I can really see the story that's being weaved here, and it's gearing toward something great. I mean from what I've seen it mixes well the epic storytelling and message of Preacher with the character chemistry and shady morality of Hitman with a good dose of the fun over-the-top gratuity of The Rifle Brigade. They've barely scratched the surface so far with The Boys, once we get the Seven more mixed up in this and Hughie and Starlight figure out who each other are then I've a feeling this can go to some interesting places. Good Lord, it's at least a better investment of my time and money than World War Hulk

[Jables]

You didn't dig Wormwood? I swear I've had every man and his dog tell me it's the last great undiscovered Ennis property. Fair point on The Boys, and while I want to know more about MM, what sneaky bits they've shown of Billy the Butcher really just showed an almost piss-taking levelof generic antihero.

'the analogue of Superman Raped my wife so now I'ma kill ém all'

- yeah nothing original there(well at least in the same way the Pro wasn't original-it's shit everyone talks about but noone's lowbrow or skilled enough to tackle). See how this arc plays out, I wanna hold off the Hughie/Starlight revelation as long as possible because damnit they have such a cute niavette, and invariably when the cat's out of the bag these two'll take centre stage as starcrossed lovers back to back against two different sets of peers that don't understand their love. Or someshit similar. Most will agree the first arc of Preacher set the tone for the whole series. Same can be said for his Hellblazer run. And Punisher. There's no finding his legs with Garth Ennis, once he's told all the good stories he just starts running characters through a meatgrinder. I've shared a theory with Nick before that the guy's just completely fucking bonkers, albeit talented, but it takes the right artist to reign him in and get a good story out've him. I'd thought after Fury that Robertson was one of those artists.

[Iambaytor]

I need to read the whole run, I peeped the first issue and it didn't do anything for me but I'll stick with it.

 

Yeah Butcher's story is a bit weak, but honestly for a character like that giving him a "real" story would just take away from the cheeky bastard he is. I think Mother's Milk has some definite potential as a character and honestly I think so do Frenchman and Female, there seems to be a bit of a mother/father dynamic going on there and a lot that's not being said.

 

And yes, I hope they hold off for a while as well but there were certain things in Issues 17 and 18 that lead me to believe he'll find out pretty quick. But I disagree on him not needing to find his legs. Preacher, Hellblazer, and Punisher were different sorts of animals. In the case of Preacher he had pretty much the skeleton of the series mapped out how it would begin and end, I can tell that just from reading the letters to the editor in the back of the books. Punisher and Hellblazer were established characters, all he had to do was put his spin on them, hell he pretty much did the same thing with Demon. It's a hell've a lot easier to write a character that somebody else already took the time to flesh out for you.

 

But I've seen this thing with The Boys with Hitman. Reading back over the old issues, particularly the Demon Annual and Batman Chronicles 4 it's plain to see that Tommy Monaghan greatly evolved as a character from some generic swearing red scarf wearing generic badass Hitman to a very dynamic character. Hell look at Pat Noonan in the Demon Annual as compared to Pat Noonan in Hitman proper he went from some hippy crackhead looking guy with nothing more than a bit part to a full on dynamic character. Hell even Sixpack and Baytor had their moments of good story, albeit briefly.

 

Don't sell the man short he's not descended into Frank Miller territory yet.

[Jables]

No, I reserve the FM comparisons for when I remember the Punisher flick. It's that precise reason I hope if anything ever comes of a Preacher series/movie, his name's not attached to the creative process. Just like the Punisher movie he'd tweak things, however small and it'd ruin the whole thing.

 

When you say Demon do you mean Etrigan?

[Iambaytor]

Yes, Etrigan but the book was called Demon

[Jables]

I gotta check that out. Did Ennis have everything rhyming the way he's apparently supposed to? I'm envisioning some colourful new limericks to share ahead.

[Iambaytor]

I gotta check that out. Did Ennis have everything rhyming the way he's apparently supposed to? I'm envisioning some colourful new limericks to share ahead.

 

Etrigan spoke in rhyme, yes. McCrea's art was pretty primitive at the time and Ennis' humor was kinda... off. It was decent but not great, he wrote the character far better during the Ace of Killers story arc of Hitman.

[Jables]

GOddamn DC not only for not adhering to my suggestion of three absolute(well before there were absolute editions I just wanted three big leatherbound editions for the 10 year anniversary) editions of Preacher, but also for not collecting Hitman into trade of any form entirely so I could mercilessly piss all over it the way you do everything else. As it is what I've read didn't dazzle me.

[Iambaytor]

It all depends entirely on the arc. Local Heroes, Fresh Meat, and Closing Time were kinda weak, closing time just made up for it with having a good ending. But 10,000 Bullets, Who Dares Wins, the arc dealing with Ringo Chen's past, and the issues where Tommy meets his father as well as the one where he chats it out with Superman on a rooftop were class. Then there were some of the more fun arcs like Ace of Killers, The Santa Contract, Tommy's Heroes, Zombie Night at Gotham Aquarium, and Superguy which were just fun and entertaining while still helping build the characters up.

 

I admit Hitman had plenty of flaws but I still liked all the characters more and Tommy Monaghan while not supremely intelligent was still a hell of a lot less of a dumbass good ole boy that Jesse was written as after about halway through Preacher (seriously where the hell did that transition take place, at the beginning he was pretty smart but by the end he's twanging like no other and acting dense as shit.) The only thing Hitman lacked was a good female lead, Debra Tiegel and Agent McAllister just didn't do it.

[Jables]

The Gotham Aquarium one i read, it was great. Closing time I'm pretty sure i read monst of if not all.

Is that when Sixpack goes off to fight for eternity with that reality-demon or somesuch and doesn't Pat turn out to be Tommy's father? I just remember Garth milking the whole óh he left shit unsaid!' thing to absolute death.

[The NZA]

Hitman's a lot of fun until a few events happen: the first is in the first act or so and involves a bathtub. the others are "homecoming" (sp?), the spread in issue # 50 and events preceding it, and moments like that that choked me right up. oh, and of course the superman issue.

Otherwise, it was a lot of fun with zombie sea life, dinosaurs and movie quotes that i love baytor to death for celebrating but just cant hold a candle to Preacher, cmon! *channels Gob*

 

Preacher > Hitman > War Story > Hellblazer > Punisher > ok, it gets random here but ive read damn near Ennis complete works and its all debatable at some point.

 

PS read the one-shot Heartland if you can.

[crimsonfire]

Couldnt wait and decided to splash out on salvation. Pretty awesome story in itself. Odin Quincannon was a character for whom the phrase "fucked up" was invented. We really see Jesses sense of right and wrong come to the fore in this story.

 

Nice little chill out time from the main plot then a little much-needed exposition then another one of Spaces Vietnam stories (i love those!). Safe to say im pretty fuckin psyched about 8 and 9. I'll lock myself in the bathroom for two hours in the Fortress and finish it off at the weekend.

[The NZA]

again, agreed on Salvation.

 

my personal warning: vol 8 sure takes its time getting where its going, but 9 makes everything worth it. cant wait to see if youre in my camp or baytor/ASC's after Alamo.

[alive she cried]

Hitman's a lot of fun until a few events happen: the first is in the first act or so and involves a bathtub. the others are "homecoming" (sp?), the spread in issue # 50 and events preceding it, and moments like that that choked me right up. oh, and of course the superman issue.

Otherwise, it was a lot of fun with zombie sea life, dinosaurs and movie quotes that i love baytor to death for celebrating but just cant hold a candle to Preacher, cmon! *channels Gob*

 

Preacher > Hitman > War Story > Hellblazer > Punisher > ok, it gets random here but ive read damn near Ennis complete works and its all debatable at some point.

 

PS read the one-shot Heartland if you can.

i have'nt read hitman, war story or ennis' hellblazer (but i have read some of the earlier stuff. did'nt strike me as anything special ) but for me punisher max is the best ennis i've read, even better than preacher

 

Couldnt wait and decided to splash out on salvation. Pretty awesome story in itself. Odin Quincannon was a character for whom the phrase "fucked up" was invented. We really see Jesses sense of right and wrong come to the fore in this story.

 

Nice little chill out time from the main plot then a little much-needed exposition then another one of Spaces Vietnam stories (i love those!). Safe to say im pretty fuckin psyched about 8 and 9. I'll lock myself in the bathroom for two hours in the Fortress and finish it off at the weekend.

 

just prepare yourself for an ending that's not unbad

[The NZA]

you see what he does?!

 

wait, now youre saying Ennis' Punisher is better? ok, any arcs in particular, though?

[alive she cried]

you see what he does?!

 

wait, now youre saying Ennis' Punisher is better? ok, any arcs in particular, though?

 

hey i'm doing for him what no one did for me, get him prepared for

 

one of the greatest and most unpredictable books ever written having, quite possibly the worst ending i've ever read. y'know i'd nearly have preferred a cancellation to that

 

 

on punisher, i really enjoyed all the arcs (have'nt read valley forge, valley forge yet)

personal favourites, born, the cell and kitchen irish

[Iambaytor]

you see what he does?!

 

wait, now youre saying Ennis' Punisher is better? ok, any arcs in particular, though?

 

You see? Do you see?! I am not the most haterific person here, there are worse.

[alive she cried]

yeah, christ i always thought myself as a lover not a hater, but i don't like sandman, transmet or, by the looks of it hellblazer (but the jury's still out on that one, i've yet to read moore and ennis' run on that and i love almost everything they do) and the end of preacher.

i know it's a western nick as you pointed out, but could'nt it have been once upon a time in the west instead of *insert shit john wayne movie here*

[The NZA]

how far'd you read into sandman, again? and transmet, i loved but i sold the trades so that's that.

ennis' hellblazer's all in trade finally, send you the scans if you want, sometime. Again, Ennis' Max is top notch, but Kitchen Irish, really? i personally thought that was like the weakest one. Man of Iron, Mother Russia etc just felt like a different level.

 

and

that's cause preacher was more a john wayne story and hitman more eastwood. it had to be told that way, man! baytor's the only one i think here that could fully appreciate the john ford-esque ending and still dislike it.

 

[crimsonfire]

Finished! The reign of the spoiler tags is at an end.

 

Vol 8 was a bit of chore in parts but still readable. Arseface is quite possibly the most redundant character in the series. I was expecting him to actually play a part in something to do with the main plot, anything at all would have done!

 

Alamo fucking ruled (heh Jay, i finished it before i even landed in Sydney) although im afraid i still havent made my mind up about the ending. It was good but there was something...missing.

 

All in all though WOW!!! I have never encountered a story like it and I dont think I ever will in the future. Im just kinda sad its finished now.