Cliques @ Hondo's & newer members feeling left out

[The NZA]

following a conversation with the lovely amynicole:

 

Quote

But you have to admit, it's pretty clique-ish here. I know I don't contribute as much as some others, especially in things like politics, but when I do, half the time convo goes on like I didn't say shit. Makes me less inclined to speak up again. I know I don't have the knowledge some of the members have, or the talent, or, well, much of anything but a smile, but dammit my words should matter. I never brought it up or anything, because I don't like to feel insecure or self centered or whiney, or paranoid or whatever, but I feel like da8 has a point. Sometimes I don't feel like a part of the crowd ( but to be clear it's rarely you that makes me feel that way, dear. Just saying to you bc you were talking about it in the thread and it's your board). I tried to get ppl posting in here with werewolf, and I loved being able to be that involved, but it's over and shits quiet in here again. If you have any ideas on ways to stir things up, I can help. I want to be a part of this. Like if I left, it would be noticed by someone other than Ray.

 

eh, this is really tricky for me.

when i was in grade/high school, i did alright socially, despite being into (and still) things socially considered dorky. i was welcome at most tables, but to follow the stereotype, bullshit posturing at the jocks table - or those who wanted to sit there - was never my thing. i usually brought a few friends to my own table, and it tended to draw the other outcasts/etc. i only got resentful if someone did that grade-school shit where they tried to bring themselves up by picking on another one, cause i wanted our area to be free of such shit. bullying's doesn't fit, there or here. people are gonna do as they will, but i tend to think you shouldn't be made to feel isolated amongst friends.

 

so along came hondo's, and i really tried to make it an extension of the late-night booze/symposium sort've things i shared with jumbie, piggy, yahve, spiffytee etc, where all manner of things taboo everywhere else could be talked about, and it was just awesome to be able to speak on philosophy, comics, games, cultural shit, etc and not worry about stepping on toes, but actually share ideas & learn things. its a feel i tried to preserve here, and its why i got so pissy about the shit-talking in fight club recently.

 

i think this ties into that, a bit. we're not just a forum, to many we're a community. many of us have met & broken the six degrees barrier, and thats a double-edged thing: people can be closer, but that vulnerability causes people to take things harder and some have left from the fallout. others bond in circles/cliques and those outside naturally feel left out, which goes against the feel i sought for the place, but really, how much could be done here....?

 

people (often having met/hung/talked offline, as well) are gonna buddy up and respond more to their friends than those they havent gotten a feel for yet...look at the awards to see this in full force. i try to do things like give us a chat, introduce people, F.A.Q./wiki for inside jokes, share things like the interview thread/venues of getting to know each other, but over the years, ive heard a number of times from people who strayed or just didnt stay because they felt they "didnt fit in", even when others enjoyed reading their posts/topics but might not've had something to say about them.

 

culturally, i tend to think this feeling is an inevitability. for every 10-20 that come wandering in, we get 1 ASC, Hakujin etc that - long before meeting people - finds a niche and gets namedropped/involved in more things than others do. whether this is persistence or a certain type've personality is worth discussing, but either way, im left with no means i can think of of more integrating new people or compelling those around at the moment to interact with them. another factor is that ive no idea what you're thinking on your end of the computer: the fact that, in this example, ames feels sometimes on the outside is something i was oblivious of, as i thought she was quite loved here, but let it be known my finger's not necessarily on the pulse of how someone else is feeling.

 

 

so, Hondo's: you feel connected, or left out? what do you think could be done to improve this? more chit-chat/getting to know people in town square, more member-of-the-day type celebratory things, or wha? even i've lamented interesting members leaving for feeling something akin to this, but again, with what we've built here, im uncertain how to get around it. Place isnt gonna be for everybody, but i dont think it should only be for the same 5 people, either.

[Keth]

I think the very first "newbie- please pick on me" stat should be implemented as a requirement. I was never picked on/bitched at for doing things wrongs. I say be meaner to new folks, in a playful sorta way... teeheehee.

 

 

or do we not wanna run folks off? O.o

 

maybe make the introduction in town square a requirement before posting. I went straight to posting when i got here. I got stuff pretty quickly, but i shoulda headed to TS first i think. it kinda forces people be sociable, but that aint too much i think. I agree though, it will probably be inevitable regardless, but you never know.

[gunsmithx]

there is nothing to be done for cliques, people simply form social circles and I kinda thing this should be in society as there isn't anything you can do really.

 

I agree though I thought everyone liked amy.

 

I was also going to make a joke about feeling on the outside but even I couldn't believe it lol

[CaterpillarScheme]

I know what Amy's talking about. I tend not to want to say anything about it, because I always attribute it to me not being funny/interesting enough or something, but I do feel sometimes that there's no way to get integrated. I know it's gonna be attributed to me not posting enough but... I go through phases where I start to post more often, but get discouraged when it goes nowhere. I get really awkward at the idea of responding to other people's posts as well, unless they're people I know (Rachael and CJ, Ryan and Amber, and Ross mostly) because I'm never really sure it's gonna be greeted with anything other than indifference. Not that I'm saying everyone should be all warm and fuzzy bunny all the time, and I'm not sure there's a ton that's gonna be able to be done about it... but I do think it's a very real thing on Hondo's.

[Aartemys]

I've been here since '04 and I sometimes feel as if I don't fit in...

 

You're not always going to like what someone else posts; and likewise, they might not like yours. You choose to pick your battles on here. I've started a million threads that go unread, and hey, it's ok because there are another 10 or so that do get some sort of attention.

 

I don't even know how many people I have brought to Hondo's and I think that only one or two are still around...it isn't for everyone, but it is...I know I contradict, but I mean to say that if you look hard enough there will be somewhere for you (even if it might be the Crap Shack!)

[Mr. Hakujin]

Ironic Amy mentioned the Werewolf thread b/c that's one of the few times on here I felt (almost) totally ignored. I posted wanting an explanation of what the game was all about and all I got was one post from Aarty saying, "You should play!" The thread just steam-rolled on by me, leaving me out of the reindeer werewolf games.

 

Again, that was a rare instance I experienced what Amy is talking about, but I do notice in some threads people tend to have tunnel vision in their posting and responses.

[the division of joy]

I've felt strongly about this for a while but never really knew where or how to bring it up. I feel a lot that I've never fitted in, this was before my major doj'ing days too and to and now afterwards.

 

I agree a lot with what ames and

 

I know what Amy's talking about. I tend not to want to say anything about it, because I always attribute it to me not being funny/interesting enough or something, but I do feel sometimes that there's no way to get integrated. I know it's gonna be attributed to me not posting enough but... I go through phases where I start to post more often, but get discouraged when it goes nowhere. I get really awkward at the idea of responding to other people's posts as well, unless they're people I know (Rachael and CJ, Ryan and Amber, and Ross mostly) because I'm never really sure it's gonna be greeted with anything other than indifference. Not that I'm saying everyone should be all warm and fuzzy bunny all the time, and I'm not sure there's a ton that's gonna be able to be done about it... but I do think it's a very real thing on Hondo's.

 

this. Entirely that. 14k fuckin posts later and there's that.

[Maldron]

*shrug* I just decided to ghost everything but the TV/Anime/Game boards.

[HypnotizinChikns]

I felt very welcome by the admin (nick/sen/mh/aarty) when i first joined, and yes, you are going to take a few hard knocks here and there whenever you join a group that is already established, but just stay true to yourself and you'll find your place in the group (YEAH LIKE ON BOTTOM FUCKKIN NEWBS!!! bow before my uhh...chikns...).

 

It's people who take shit to personally that get hurt, and we've all had our "wtf???" moments that leave other posters scratching their head in disbelief. As a poster who doesn't KNOW (besides Gnatt...but where the fuck is she these days???) anyone personally, I'd say overall the forum is very accepting and tolerant considering some other forums i've joined.

 

 

besides, me n doj are like peas n carrots. you bitches would miss us if we left. admit it now or i'll feel excluded and leave forever.

 

[The NZA]

man, 5 "nobody notices me" votes. from your responses, a few of you that voted that way have spoken up, sure wish the rest would. no better time than now!

 

again, while its unavoidable that people who've met might be closer/respond to each other more, i think it depends on what's being said. if we agree that im fairly popular here, why can i make topics in comics, philosophy etc some times and get lots of views, but not one response? sometimes, people (those on at the moment) dont have anything to say on the subject, or even have anything to reply to...this isnt so much a reflection on my character as what's being said, though, i tend to think. like: if i make an interesting topic on say apple products or what lady gaga's up to this week or something, do you believe it will get more replies/notice simply because i made it than if a newbie did? when you think about it for a second, you might disagree, but i tend to think: the subject (unless it has to be sold/presented right?) is gonna be interesting regardless of who threw it out there. maybe its easy for me to say, but i dont think there's a conspiracy to ignore/placate some people. DA8 might be one such exception, but its hard to sympathize, dude spent years trying to troll this place so no one knows if he's fucking about or not.

 

axel had a point earlier on, but he's an example of a dude that just came in guns blazing/posting up shit where he liked, and if it got responses, great; if not, he did it anyway. i tend to think someone like this will work their way in anywhere they please, but im not trying to tell those of a different persona like ames or caterpillar or such to emulate this; i guess i dont say enough how i, personally, dig some of you, and again the chat, crap shack etc excel prolly cause they allow more chit-chat/getting to know you than maybe other theme-specific forums do. like, i dig caterpillar's posts in politics when i see them, i just dont always have anything to add if i agree or simply appreciate what was said. she strikes me as interesting when she's not fucking up my WW game strategy aw dammit woman, again as an example.

 

but again, goes to show how little you know about how things carry over to the other end of the net: i know im not alone in thinking its almost odd to think of Ames feeling on the outside. to address others:

 

aarty: i know how you feel, love - some things've stuck with me; i was sad you didnt see votes in "most missed" years ago and that made me think about how shallow such a poll can be; current crowds might not see you as one of the earlier cornerstones of the board & such. just wanted to say i do appreciate you still comin about regardless; hondos has prolly ended more relationships than its kept (heh) but yours makes me happy, as does the card you sent.

 

DoJ: dude, i never know what to make of you. for real.

i used to feel bad that you'd make threads and feel they get slept on, but then id write it off cause again, im just as alone most times in wu/hip-hop threads as ray-ray in raspunita/ramstein etc. you've come around, but the tao of "meh" has me never knowing if you want to just treat this place like a way to kill time at work (nothing wrong with that, mind; plenty do) or you wanna make a home of it. you've loved & hated this place countless times and been generally apathetic far more. i genuinely think you're wanting to do something in FC or with awards or something and then you conveniently disappear and im left thinking you're taking the piss.

like anything, this place is what you make it, man. you tell me what you want it to be.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

so, yeah...if you, like me, see hondo's as an extension of talking over drinks in a bar/someone's house/etc, and certain people get noticed or replied to more than others, again, how much of that do you put on who they are vs what is being said? people like lycaon say things in politics that aren't (often) nearly as controversial as say, arch or jax or someone else, so the latter tend to get a lot more replies. do you put this more on ly or more on what the others said?

[CaterpillarScheme]

Just a thought here... it seems the ones that are arguing more against the fact that there are cliques/putting other reasons out there for the perceived cliquishness seem to be the ones that actually are in the "in crowd." This is not to say that it's a purposeful thing, I don't think there's a conspiracy of any sort certainly, and definitely not to say they are bad people (in fact they are some of my favorite people, I really love hearing what some of you have to say. It's why I'm still here) but just to propose the idea that you might not be able to be as aware of it, or notice how much it happens.

 

Now, of course people are gonna respond more to the people they know and are close with, there's nothing to be done about that. It's just normal. I think my argument would be more that the idea needs to be out there in the general Hondo's consciousness that it can be really hard to be outside of the group, and really hard to be a newby, and that if you guys want new blood in here, or want some of the moderate posters to speak up more, that it might need a little bit of a conscious effort to acknowledge them. It might liven this place up a bit. Not babying or anything, and not being overly nice or out of character, but maybe just be a little more aware?

[Lycaon]

Yeah, I've sometimes felt this way, but that's just the way groups go. I realize that it's rarely an intentional thing (though in D8's case, I've had him on ignore for a long time. Got tired of the trolling). I do feel it more often in the Politics forum.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Lycaon

[Maldron]

Definitely Politics, yes. I never feel encouraged to speak there. I just watch, try to read around the fights. But I don't ever feel encouraged to contribute, or ask questions.

[Iambaytor]

Man, I thought the Knoll tried to say that Hondo's was a big clique nigh-upon 3 years ago, now we're saying there's cliques within the clique? This shit is getting deep, in more ways than one.

[the division of joy]

DoJ: dude, i never know what to make of you. for real.

i used to feel bad that you'd make threads and feel they get slept on, but then id write it off cause again, im just as alone most times in wu/hip-hop threads as ray-ray in raspunita/ramstein etc. you've come around, but the tao of "meh" has me never knowing if you want to just treat this place like a way to kill time at work (nothing wrong with that, mind; plenty do) or you wanna make a home of it. you've loved & hated this place countless times and been generally apathetic far more. i genuinely think you're wanting to do something in FC or with awards or something and then you conveniently disappear and im left thinking you're taking the piss.

like anything, this place is what you make it, man. you tell me what you want it to be.

I find its an on and off thing with me, I go through phases really of loving this place and getting fed up of the place.

[La Lindsay]

i agree with amy regarding the politics thing but i've chalked it up to being less of a clique thing and more of a jax vs. arch battle to the death and we're all the casualties of that war of semantics. so i've stop posting there because it feels futile.

 

i try to respond to people who directly address me or whenever there are topics that i feel i can assist in and i still love posting in movies, sociology, and blargh but that's about it. i think when i first started, i was a hell of a lot more interactive with other members and now i feel that i just throw stuff out there, much like a blog. i don't know why but it might be a time issue and also that i feel a little in limbo; not quite gone but not quite here either.

[Lycaon]

i agree with amy regarding the politics thing but i've chalked it up to being less of a clique thing and more of a jax vs. arch battle to the death and we're all the casualties of that war of semantics. so i've stop posting there because it feels futile.

Well said.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Lycaon

[the division of joy]

i agree with amy regarding the politics thing but i've chalked it up to being less of a clique thing and more of a jax vs. arch battle to the death and we're all the casualties of that war of semantics. so i've stop posting there because it feels futile.

[amynicole]

LL, I look foward to your posts when I create a topic. We have some common intrests, and you usually have something to say that I hadn't thought of yet.

[Jumbie]

I've got a pretty low post count, especially when you consider that I've been here longer than most.

 

I just post in what I'm interested in or what seems like it could become interesting.

 

However, I do have a tendency to reply to a friend's thread more than someone I don't know much, but that's usually just to make fun of them or to hijack a boring topic and lead it somewhere interesting.

 

I wouldn't try to derail a topic from someone I didn't know well, so I just don't post in it if it's not in my area of interest.

 

POLITICS is a sore point for me. It's potentially got the widest appeal and the early discussions there were good before God and the Devil showed up to call each other names. (I'm a Preacher fan, so me calling one party God is actually not a compliment)

 

When Lycaon showed up and started posting in politics kinda regularly I was delighted and I tried to respond to everything he posted.

 

Now that Ly and Lindsay and others don't post in politics, *I* feel less like posting there. I've been posting less there because every time I think of something to post I realize I already know what Jax and Archangel will say about it and where they will steer it.

 

I would like to just clean the place up and make it newbie friendly by banning certain behaviour, but I can't see POLITICS working without the freedom to say anything.

 

I think the solution may like in a crowd response. Like the way social pressure works. If somebody cuts the line at the supermarket, there's no law against it, but if enough people speak against it, the offender usually backs off.

 

-----------------------

 

 

 

But to get back to the general topic: I like the idea of making an intro thread mandatory.

 

We should also have an actual 'Welcome Committee' with rotating membership so that Newbies will get eased in at first. Just at first. After you reach 50 posts, you're on your own.

 

As for cliques: It's inevitable. We have different interests and areas of knowledge. I like movies and anime but I don't get to see a lot of them early on so I tend to stay away from those threads to avoid spoilers.

 

Plus we have geographical cliques and some of us have inside jokes from things that happened away from Hondos and mentioning those things will tend to create a barrier.

 

The solution? not sure. When I have a kid in class who's having trouble making friends, I usually assign one of the friendlier kids to sit next to them and maybe even set them some extra curricular task.

 

To prevent cliques forming in class I usually rotate who sits at what table, either on a permanent basis or on a task by task basis. I think Werewolf is a good example of how this could work at Hondos. I had never spoken to Amanda before the game and now I feel like I know her.

 

We should probably have some kinda 'pair up for a month' system where active members get assigned to create and manage a thread together etc? Maybe have a star of the week function where everyone gets a week where everything they post is golden and people have to reply to it? (Well not HAVE to, but it'll be as close to a rule as can be) it could make for some entertaining threads if everyone had to post in "Why I think Miley Cyrus should get an Oscar for her new movie."

 

Or maybe Admin could make one ignored thread a Golden thread. I seem to remember us having a thread of the week once that seemed to work pretty well.

[soldier of fortune]

I know i've mentioned this before, and as Nick has pointed out, people who hang together, will generaly post on each others stuff etc, cos they know the real person behind the online persona. I've always felt a certain level of it, but i guess now i'm older and wiser i don't let it get to me too much, or at least try not let it get to me.

 

No doubt i've made some fine friends on this place, Eamonn, and Ross, great to get to hang out with, wish it was more, but like a lot of us here i've been around for ages, and i "know" lots of people here. Not met nearly enough of them, but i know who's posts i look out for and who's ones i want to reply in.

 

Also great to meet up with some of the hondonians who sadly aren't around as much as they used to be, mainly Jesi, SB, Signal, and i know Benny and Dyana are here. Its true that hondo's breaks up with a lot of people, and there are times where i feel apaty/boredom with this place, hell it still feels weird to me.

[Benz]

i agree with amy regarding the politics thing but i've chalked it up to being less of a clique thing and more of a jax vs. arch battle to the death and we're all the casualties of that war of semantics. so i've stop posting there because it feels futile.

 

I gotta agree here. No offense to either of youse. Especially when I'm told constantly I'm being intellectually dishonest, or wrong (not just disagreeing), or a moron, or blind or... I could go on, but I won't. No doubt Arch will come and defend how I've been wrong... No need man. Fuck it. I give up on politics. It's not worth it. I'll bullshit with you guys in other forums on here. It's not worth either of us getting upset or other baloney. I'll post an occasional story if I'm the first to do so here or there, but then I just let it go.

 

I've kinda made sports my thing lately (both on here and in real life, just ask Aarty.) Sports isn't for everyone. But I look at the times viewed and know at least some people are looking. (I'm thinking of going mod on sports, I'll abdicate the Sanctuary.) And Gunsmith, doj, asc, sof and Nick have been posting in there too, so that's good. I'll post here and there on other forums too, but if I don't post, please don't think I'm ignoring you. I like all of you (well except

Newt cause he's an ass.

) Anyways... more on this later...

[the division of joy]

I'd be more in sports, but there's not many people here who have as much an interest in football (not hand egg) that I would.

[Aartemys]

I'd be more in sports, but there's not many people here who have as much an interest in football (not hand egg) that I would.

 

 

Post it anyway. You never know if someone genuinely wants to know about it unless you do. Hell, I can't even mention the countless things I've been turned onto just because someone mentioned it in a thread...(Rodrigo & Gabriella???).

 

What I would like is for the new ones to not feel overwhelmed by the big dogs on here. I was steamrolled by Jax when I first joined (sadly lost in the crash of '04) and for a minute I was very weary of coming back to take more abuse...but I did. And look, it's going to be 6 years in a few months!

 

I like Jumbie's ideas and wouldn't mind being a part of the welcome committee.

[Lycaon]

Post it anyway. You never know if someone genuinely wants to know about it unless you do. Hell,

I like Jumbie's ideas and wouldn't mind being a part of the welcome committee.

I thought you, Isa, and MH already were the Hot Costner Welcoming Committee.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Lycaon