The Amazing Spider-Man

[Iambaytor]

*sigh* J.D. Salinger wrote like four books, if they were good then J.D. Salinger was good.

 

Alan Moore wrote some really great books but there's been a clear decline over a long period of time, roughly equivalent to the rise in his dickishness. For all intents and purposes Alan Moore is the Billy Joel of the comics world.

 

Sam Raimi has made 13 movies, 1 of them had like 3 things that took it from being great to (in my eyes) a couple notches above mediocre. So he's made 12 and a half movies I loved WHAT A FUCKING HACK! I don't know why I would dare defend him or like anything he's made because he made that one movie that wasn't that good. Seriously, how dare I.

 

Yeah, Harry and MJ were important characters in theory but in practice they didn't really do a whole lot of fucking anything to advance the plot, MJ could've died halfway through and Harry could have gotten mid-70s Tony Stark drunk and stumbled off his doom fortress apartment balcony and the movie wouldn't have changed much (excepting that it would have been better) Venom's big failing was that they didn't change his voice and his part in the move was crammed into about 20 minutes at the end, if they had expanded his role and done some voice augmentation then it would've worked for me. I have no problem with Topher Grace as Eddie Brock, he played the character exactly as he was written in his early incarnation and I don't have the white-hot hatred of Topher Grace that most of the world does. Same with Emo-Parker: he was meant to be an object of ridicule and all the theatrics and over-the-top douchiness was the whole point behind that entire section, doesn't bother me. I don't even care about the plot twist with "who killed uncle Ben?" They played it better than most "the villain of the movie is responsible for what I have become" bits *COUGH*TIMBURTON'SBATMAN*COUGH* and I didn't feel like any power had been stolen from the scene in the first movie by the switch-up. So yeah, MJ and Harry (honestly they were problems I had with all 3 movies) and a rushed Venom were my only legitimate gripes. So that's... what 30 minutes out of a movie that was about 50 minutes longer than the palatable 90 minutes most movies run at. Hell if there was more B-Roll Venom stuff I'm confident I could cut together a Spider-Man 3 that's about 60% better.

 

But you know, I like stuff that you don't and you like things that I don't so that makes me some sort of horrible creature I guess. I suppose the movie really could have done with some cool stuff like an elaborate wire-fighting scene in a children's playground, or an Evanescence song over a "suiting up" scene, or maybe such Oscarworthy writing as "Do you know what happens to a toad when its struck by lightning?" or "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight." I'm just saying, call me a fanboy all you want but each and every one of you champion at least one comic book movie that is actively and noticeably worse than Spider-Man 3.

 

So whatever, you are right.

[Thelogan]

each and every one of you champion at least one comic book movie that is actively and noticeably worse than Spider-Man 3.

 

For the record, I don't recall doing this. I think every movie you mentioned is terrible. I liked Batman/Returns when I was eight, these days it's completely unwatchable.

[Iambaytor]

That part wasn't for you, this one was.

 

But you know, I like stuff that you don't and you like things that I don't so that makes me some sort of horrible creature I guess.

 

Though it wouldn't surprise me if you were a closet fan of Tank Girl or Heavy Metal 2000 or Fritz the Cat or some shit. There is your admission to owning Howard the Duck but I'm going to assume that's kind of like my copy of Street Fighter.

[Thelogan]

Howard the Duck is the only only applicable movie there, and I recognize that it's a nostalgia thing.

 

Fritz the Cat is an abomination. It's one of the rare movies that I had to shut off in disgust and I never finished. Not because of pornographic content, I could always do with more of that.

 

I guess I expected an adaptation that was poorly done. I didn't expect it to have absolutely nothing to do with Fritz in any way whatsoever, other than they're both cats with the same first name. As an R. Crumb fan, it made me want to punch things.

[Iambaytor]

I feel the same way, turned it off 20 minutes in. I don't dare even think about watching the sequel.

[The NZA]

"ima defend this crappy movie by talking about all the other crappy ones"

 

For all intents and purposes Alan Moore is the Billy Joel of the comics world.

 

[alive she cried]

+1 Nick, lolz were had.

[Iambaytor]

"ima defend this crappy movie by talking about all the other crappy ones"

 

 

[Thelogan]

 

 

[Iambaytor]

Oh, yes, I'M the condescending fanboy in this foursome. I'm done rolling the boulder up this hill.

 

YOU ARE RIGHT

 

[Thelogan]

This is, like, the one time you've not been the one trashing something that we like.

 

Wear the shoes. Let it be a lesson in empathy.

[The NZA]

the lady doth protest at mine use of pictures rather than words. i shall try the latter.

 

Alan Moore wrote some really great books but there's been a clear decline over a long period of time, roughly equivalent to the rise in his dickishness. For all intents and purposes Alan Moore is the Billy Joel of the comics world.

 

alright, you're entitled to be a raving Raimi fanboy and rationalize a disappointing film any which way you please - i'm not going to pretend to enjoy/celebrate shit that others on here loathe. but a few things stood out from your u-mad rant:

 

1) it's interesting that you rate a quality storyteller on the % of their works, because that of course heavily favors people with smaller resumes. if you used that metric on even someone like Ennis, he'd rate rather poorly, as the highs are quite high but there are many, many lows. nothing wrong with you personally enjoying the vast majority of Sam's directorial efforts - i wanna say i have too - but i'd not assume others had seen many of them before a huge blockbuster like Spidey 1-3, for better or worse.

 

2) see, i can barely get into Moore with you because you've planted your flag so hard on this one that you've started to "meh" at Watchmen and the like. yeah, he's not trying to reinvent genres in his middle age, but he's still writing enjoyable stories. worse yet, you're apparently factoring in perceived "dickishnes" of a writer who, despite having created some of DC's finest, has been fucked/marginalized multiple times over the years by them, in the same post you lament what the studios did to Raimi (and don't pretend he's alone here, i'm pretty sure you're aware of what went down with Singer & X3).

 

i don't even know how that connects to Billy Joel in your mind, but your Raimi Defense Force post was kinda troubled even before that bit, i thought.

 

ps The Quick and The Dead was not a good western.

 

and to fill my quota

 

[Maldron]

... I Like Tank Girl.

 

I own it on the Digital Video Disc.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Maldron

[Iambaytor]

1) it's interesting that you rate a quality storyteller on the % of their works, because that of course heavily favors people with smaller resumes. if you used that metric on even someone like Ennis, he'd rate rather poorly, as the highs are quite high but there are many, many lows. nothing wrong with you personally enjoying the vast majority of Sam's directorial efforts - i wanna say i have too - but i'd not assume others had seen many of them before a huge blockbuster like Spidey 1-3, for better or worse.

 

I rate a storyteller based on their current work. If they're not any good any more, they aren't. It's not a percentage thing. 70s and 80s Alan Moore was a good writer he had so many hits back then, but sometime around 2001 shit stopped happening from him. I've mentioned this every time I've brought up why I don't like Alan Moore and the reply I usually get is "FUCK YOU YOU LUDDITE HE REVOLUTIONIZED THE GENRE YOU HAVE TO RESPECT WHAT HE'S DONE!" and I do. I respect Watchmen and Swamp Thing and all his tent-pole shit. That doesn't mean that what he is currently doing is any good. I mean I respect Sam Peckinpah, it doesn't mean anything he did after Cross of Iron was any good. In any circumstance I never told anybody you shouldn't like Alan Moore or to paraphrase Sin: "ARE YOU BLIND, YOU MUST BE NOT TO SEE IT" I just had the audacity to suggest that maybe it was okay for somebody not to like him or his work. And then somebody chimes in with "Yeah, well you like Badger!" My "hating" is me using your own logic against you, if me liking Badger is comically ridiculous because I think Black Dossier is a piece of shit then you liking Daredevil when you seem to think Spider-Man 3 is the Plan 9 of our generation is ridiculous. I don't give a fuck whether you like it or not, I just get tired of the implication that the only reason I can possibly like something is because I'm a fanboy. I mean I'm sure there's Peckinpah fans that actually like Convoy and The Osterman Weekend and good for them. Whatever. I have plenty of guilty pleasures and hold no delusions of being a man of wealth and taste. I just get tired of this bullshit and since I'm not a very big person I tend to get a little prickish when I'm annoyed and turn it back on you.

 

2) see, i can barely get into Moore with you because you've planted your flag so hard on this one that you've started to "meh" at Watchmen and the like. yeah, he's not trying to reinvent genres in his middle age, but he's still writing enjoyable stories. worse yet, you're apparently factoring in perceived "dickishnes" of a writer who, despite having created some of DC's finest, has been fucked/marginalized multiple times over the years by them, in the same post you lament what the studios did to Raimi (and don't pretend he's alone here, i'm pretty sure you're aware of what went down with Singer & X3).

 

Yeah, that's why I've got like 30 gigs of Alan Moore books on my hard-drive that I'm slowly peeling through. I guess I'm giving him a chance because I'm such a stalwart fanboy that refuses to change his mind. (Sidenote: Has anybody read his take on Glory? It's pretty good, if a bit reminiscent on Miracleman. It's a far better break-down of Wonder Woman than Promethea was and I'm kinda bummed that he never finished it.) I'm even such an unmoving fanboy that I'll even rescind my "Alan Moore sucks" remark once I find something made in the last 10 years that I like. Still, I didn't care for Promethea, Black Dossier was stupid, and Century is shit. He's still a great idea man, I am in awe of the universe he has created with League of Extraordinary Gentleman where basically everything shares a universe as intricate as Marvel or DC's. The little asides and mentions to Blacula and Voldemot in Century were great, what wasn't was the story. And his dickisness has nothing to do with his "DC should've paid me." I support that, I think me and Pancho have fused in your mind on that issue, the guy deserves his due. (And I have a seething hatred for DC's current editor-in-chief so there's definitely no fanboy backing there.) And Before Watchmen is nothing I'll ever buy, that's a pirate if I even read them. I do think he's a bit full of himself and that he needs to shut his mouth on things that aren't about comics, but I think that about most comic creators, Alan Moore just happens to be the most vocal. It's why I don't subscribe to anyone's twitter or facebook pages, this way I never break they illusion in my head that I would actually like them as people. God knows I wished I'd realized that before I joined Brian Keene's message board.

 

And you know, I'm glad you brought up Singer because that's how I feel about Sam Raimi. When Superman Returns came out everyone turned on Brian Singer as if he'd just remade Steel. To this day the guy has a hard time getting work (It didn't help that Valkyrie wasn't very good), how people feel about Superman Returns is more or less how I feel about Spider-Man 3. It was flawed, it was too long, and some of the performances are not very good (As bad as MJ was, she was still better than Lois Lane) but there's still a lot to love so just get off my case about it.

 

The Billy Joel connection comes because I hated Billy Joel for most of my life. The man is a capital-A Asshole and I've always hated his music. Then I started to listen to a lot of classic rock radio and they started playing a lot of his old songs. For a while I was actually pissed off by how much I liked a lot of his old stuff but then I realized this is why Billy Joel is who he is, then he did "We Didn't Start the Fire" and has been coasting on fumes ever since. That's how I feel about Alan Moore, I do however reserve the right to change my mind.

 

your entire stance is just reactionary to, i'm not sure, but i'm guessing a mental projection of jax sipping a latte and spitting some of it on his scarf everytime you disagree with a top 10 list from pitchfork.

ps The Quick and The Dead was not a good western.

 

Yep, totally making it up in my head. I was going to end this being the bigger person, but fuck it:

 

You are such a weekend lesbian when it comes to westerns. I will admit that by your criteria (The Quick and the Dead features neither John Wayne nor Clint Eastwood in a leading part, nor is it directed by Sergio Leone, John Ford, or Howard Hawkes. Then again you don't even like Leone movies unless they've got Clint in them.) Have you even seen more than 10 that didn't have John Wayne in them? Have you even seen Django? I think you briefly mentioned having seen the Trinity movies but that and Lonesome Dove seemed like about as obscure as you've gone.

 

Okay, Quick and the Dead isn't for everybody. I get your "Mortal Kombat with sixguns" analogy, I thought of it too. I just don't really get why that's a bad thing. Do you hate Sharon Stone? I'll admit she's not the strong-point of that movie but she hardly sinks it and I don't see how everything else is in any way bad.

 

... I Like Tank Girl.

 

I do not hate you, I feel sorry for you that you have built up a tolerance to Lori Petty.

[The NZA]

man, you are really angry about this. i was seriously stirring your hornet's nest in a loving way here, for what it's worth.

 

i take back what i said, again given that you're reading more Moore (heh) than i do. your prior stances, though, did really sound contrarian man. the ability to discuss them and revisit them when and if you read more stuff is cool though, so uh, put down the rock.

 

 

you liking Daredevil

 

for posterity: i begrudgingly defend the potential of what it could be, and bits that worked. it was a hot goddamn mess and we both know it and the minute it gets a proper relaunch like the Hulk did, it's thankfully out of sight & mind.

 

also: Spidey 3 was merely this generation's Ishtar.

 

And you know, I'm glad you brought up Singer because that's how I feel about Sam Raimi. When Superman Returns came out everyone turned on Brian Singer as if he'd just remade Steel. To this day the guy has a hard time getting work (It didn't help that Valkyrie wasn't very good), how people feel about Superman Returns is more or less how I feel about Spider-Man 3. It was flawed, it was too long, and some of the performances are not very good (As bad as MJ was, she was still better than Lois Lane) but there's still a lot to love so just get off my case about it.

 

yeah, but Singer got fucked, like harder than Raimi did. it's why he walked, and if your boy had, we'd not be discussing this, but again since you & Jay took joy from 3 i guess that's worth something. if Amazing goes tits-up perhaps ill look back on it more fogrivingly?

but while i liked what he went for in Superman Returns, it was largely forgettable for me, and went in some really weird places. i don't envy anyone who tries to spiritually revisit a property that old, and i got that even bits i didnt really care for were kinda nods, but that didn't make it enjoyable overall. doesn't make him a bad director, but it doesn't make it a good flick either.

 

The Billy Joel connection comes because I hated Billy Joel for most of my life. The man is a capital-A Asshole and I've always hated his music. Then I started to listen to a lot of classic rock radio and they started playing a lot of his old songs. For a while I was actually pissed off by how much I liked a lot of his old stuff but then I realized this is why Billy Joel is who he is, then he did "We Didn't Start the Fire" and has been coasting on fumes ever since. That's how I feel about Alan Moore, I do however reserve the right to change my mind.

 

that makes more sense than your quoted bit did, though i do stand by my Dale gif as having been appropriate at the moment.

 

You are such a weekend lesbian when it comes to westerns. I will admit that by your criteria (The Quick and the Dead features neither John Wayne nor Clint Eastwood in a leading part, nor is it directed by Sergio Leone, John Ford, or Howard Hawkes. Then again you don't even like Leone movies unless they've got Clint in them.) Have you even seen more than 10 that didn't have John Wayne in them? Have you even seen Django? I think you briefly mentioned having seen the Trinity movies but that and Lonesome Dove seemed like about as obscure as you've gone.

 

oh, here we go.

last i read on it, westerns were still the largest genre due to oversaturation in the day, so you gotta understand where i'm picky with my time - yeah, ive watched a metric fuckton of b-rated Duke ones, but i suppose i don't talk about some of the other greats like The Ox Bow Incident, or the other ones you pick up in film class (even more modern ones like that weird shit with Johnny Depp). i tend to find a brand (actor/director) i like and ride it out, clearly. if you know many dudes who aren't Wayne, Eastwood, Fonda, Cooper etc (borgnine?) and are consistently good in western flicks, we've a thread for that!

 

and no, the only Django i saw was Sukiyaki, though i wish i'dve seen the older one instead.

 

 

Okay, Quick and the Dead isn't for everybody. I get your "Mortal Kombat with sixguns" analogy, I thought of it too. I just don't really get why that's a bad thing. Do you hate Sharon Stone? I'll admit she's not the strong-point of that movie but she hardly sinks it and I don't see how everything else is in any way bad.

 

she sucked, but even better casting calls like Crowe and Leo didn't really get their due, moreso Leo i recall thinking. it was like watching most of the people in Once Upon a Time in Mexico, only that was admittedly way worse. i didn't really care about anyone's plight.

[Iambaytor]

I'm never as mad as I seem, I'm just filled with venom. I think it's all that youthful rebellion stirring up inside me, I'ma go dig up the westerns thread from whatever dark hole it's buried in an continue this conversation.

[crimsonfire]

Not even a little interested in going back to check if this has been discussed yet but why? Why this franchise?

 

Spiderman isn't exactly gracefully maturing in an archive somewhere, ripe for resurrection. This is a series that doesn't need to be rebooted. The first two movies were great, the first of which isn't even a decade old. You can understand when it's something like Hulk where the first incarnation sucked and needed to be swept under the carpet sharpish. The Spiderman movies were good and are still pretty contemporary effects-wise. I'm baffled to say the least.

[Iambaytor]

I'll save you 3 pages, basically it isn't. Or if you are a rampant Spider-Man 3 hater then it definitely needs to be done. There was going to be a Spider-Man 4, John Malkovich was going to play The Vulture but Sony wanted a different villain so Sam Raimi walked. It's a shame because I really would have liked him to just put out a Spider-Man 4 that flattens everyone's balls and then dropped the mic and walked off.

 

My only real hope is that this somehow does so abysmal that Marvel can get the rights back.

[Thelogan]

A movie that Sony rushed into production in order to not lose their rights to the character, somehow not good?

 

I don't see how that could be.

 

All these scumfucks with their finger in the Marvel pie need to go away. I need an Infinity Gauntlet movie with Howard the Duck and Man-Thing back to back with the X-men.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

I need an Infinity Gauntlet movie with Howard the Duck and Man-Thing back to back with the X-men.

 

We all do. We all do.

[Iambaytor]

Why don't we just cut out the middleman and just make a movie with Man-Thing and Howard the Duck. I'm pretty sure that those rights have lapsed at this point.

[Lycaon]

A Man-Thing movie came out in 2005, so maybe not...

Edited May 11, 2012 by Lycaon

[crimsonfire]

What are the chances of Marvel Studios doing a snatch-and-run on a few more errant film options in the near future? I'm not saying they desperately need new blood or anything (they don't need shit except another warehouse to store the obscene amounts of cash they're making) but it would be cool if they drafted in a few more heroes to keep the fanboys salivating.

[Iambaytor]

A Man-Thing movie came out in 2005, so maybe not...

 

Trust me, if there's any Hondonian who would be aware of that... thing it's me. I don't think the deal was for more than one movie and I don't think the rights will be renewed in any case.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

Jesus that movie was bad.

 

The horror. . .the horror. . .